So very much of the weird here

[oursin]

Okay, I will concede that AITA reveals previously unplumbed Things In Woodsheds.... that I think might boggle even Aunt Ada Doom.

But honestly, this one.

He asked me if him and his girlfriend could use my house to give birth at. I didn't even know what he was getting at at first but he explained to me that their apartment doesn't have a bathtub, is too small for an inflatable pool* and it would attract too much attention if the birth was there and the neighbors will likely call the authorities.

I am honestly not sure if this is more or less Out There than that lady who wanted to give birth alone except for the presence of a silent aged crone, in the woods by a stream. (Antenatal classes wot antenatal classes.)

But quite apart from wondering what is going through these people's minds that they are worrying about the neighbours calling the authorities and not all the things that can go wrong during childbirth????!!!! -

- there is also present a theme that recurs in these posts of people making, as if it is quite reasonable, the most unwarrantable demands upon family members/friends/room-mates/fellow-students/co-workers. Because I really do not think it is An Okay Thing to ask your brother or sister to give up their house (when you, the other sibling, do not have a des res yourself capable of accommodating a birthing-pool) for the duration, and doing what appears to be pouting when he expresses qualms, and their mother going 'awww, be nice' (doesn't explicitly invoke 'sharing' but I am reminded of those 'we will let your sibs/stepsibs run amok with your possessions because Sharing Is Good' complaints).

Are they going to pay for any clean-up necessary after the event, we wonder?

*Which we strongly suspect is just a kiddie's paddling pool and not a proper birthing pool, anyone up to take a bet?

Comments

[lilysea]

My concerns would include

a) if she dies, how morally culpable / guilt ridden is the house-owner going to feel?

b) if she dies, how long is the house going to be off-limits to the houseowner as a crime scene?

[oursin]

Plus
c) if mother and baby survive, he may find it hard to get them out...

[davidgillon]

Wow, weird. Given all the effort to avoid involving the medical establishment, I definitely wouldn't trust either of them to know when they need to call for help.

[raven]

I did wonder with this one if they're in the US with no health insurance and are just scrabbling to do whatever they can to make the process bearable , but the whole thing is just so weird.

[lilysea]

A lot of US states provide free pregnancy-only care for low income mothers, tho?

It's not perfect, and it cuts off WAY too early after birth, but it would at least cover antenatal appointments and giving birth...

I googled:

Medicaid and CHIP provide free or low-cost health coverage to millions of Americans, including some low-income people, families and children, and pregnant women.
Eligibility for these programs depends on your household size, income, and citizenship or immigration status. Specific rules and benefits vary by state.
You can apply for Medicaid or CHIP any time during the year, not just during the annual Open Enrollment Period.

You can apply 2 ways: Directly through your state agency, or by filling out a Marketplace application and selecting that you want help paying for coverage.
Learn how to apply for Medicaid and CHIP.

If found eligible during your pregnancy, you’ll be covered for 60 days after you give birth. After 60 days, you may no longer qualify. Your state Medicaid or CHIP agency will notify you if your coverage is ending. You can enroll in a Marketplace plan during this time to avoid a break in coverage.

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-im-pregnant-or-plan-to-get-pregnant/

[oursin]

One wonders if these are the kind of people who spurn vaxxes because of chimerical microchips, and therefore state medical aid would have Sinister Connotations for them. SIIIGGGHHH.

[lilysea]

someone in the comments at reddit speculated that the child won't get the vitamin K injections usually given at birth in hospital to prevent brain bleeds :(

apparently antivaxxers mistakenly think the vitamin K injections are vaccinations :(

[conuly]

Happily for the babies, those injections are universally given out of an abundance of caution and not because they're universally *necessary*.

The downside of this, of course, is that every baby that's just fine without the shot convinces them that NO babies need them.

[conuly]

There's definitely an overlap between the homebirth crowd and the no government crowd. And the way they appear to be going about that doesn't make that less likely.

However, honestly, some people just like the idea of homebirth because they want to be at home during this scary event, and when it comes to waterbirth they think it's safer/more natural/more comfortable/generally a bonus.

Hospitals can do a lot of things that make patients feel disempowered, especially soon-to-be new parents. Writing a birth plan and being in a familiar place where you KNOW the birth plan will be followed can make some people feel more secure.

Even things that are good and necessary can feel confusing and scary, during what's an inherently scary time.

I honestly think that we'd do more good to encourage people who want to try homebirth to do so safely than to make it clear we think they're super fringey and crazy.

Safely means you go to your prenatal checkups* and that you have a licensed nurse midwife at the scene.

* I am all for bringing back home checkups for people who aren't high risk and want that. Anything to make people about to embark on the terror of childbirth and parenting feel more confident and secure, and also more willing to accept medical advice.

[castiron]

Yes re: the midwife. My first pregnancy was planned as a homebirth and ended up as a hospital birth because the midwife saw an indicator of possible fetal distress; as things turned out it would've been fine to continue at home, but at the time none of us knew that Oldest was doing fine and that I was going to zoom through labor much faster than one expects for a first-time mother. The midwife made the right call.

Middle and Youngest were born in a certified nurse midwife-run birthing center that was a good compromise between home and hospital and very close to an excellent hospital in case of emergency. (Though if we'd waited another hour to leave the house, Youngest *would've* been born at home.) It was a far more comfortable atmosphere for prenatal visits than an OB's office would've been, too.

[oursin]

Whre this started getting particularly 'huh?' was where they wanted to build their cozy birthing nest in somebody else's home (and without any of the things which would make any birth safer, i.e. somebody around who knows what they're doing, etc)

[adrian_turtle]

I could understand and sympathize with a couple who heard enough surprise-billing horror stories that they didn't trust a Medicaid Marketplace to not charge them overwhelming fees after the fact. But I don't think that's going on here, because if the problem was financial they would lead with it. "Bro, we don't have insurance and a hospital birth would bankrupt us. Can we use your house and do it privately?"

[dewline]

Now, that makes sense of an all too real and horrific kind.

[lexin]

Really, very very strange.

[ethelmay]

I am a fan of home birth under the right circumstances (though I ended up transferring to hospital myself - not for any big emergency, just super slow exhausting labor), and I say this was nuts.

[conuly]

As always, the crunchy end of the homebirth spectrum - which I presume this is, using water birthing methods and, I'm guessing, no midwife - pulls in the far left and the far right equally.

Either way, yeah, they're bound to be way more worried about the authorities than complications.

With that said - if there's no strong risk for complications, the home has been properly prepared, and there is a licensed nurse midwife on the scene who is empowered to call an ambulance if things go south, homebirths can be as safe as hospital births in places where hospital births are generally safe. (In some areas of the world homebirths are safer, but this is an indictment of their hospitals.)

[mirlacca]

But but but but but childbirth is NATURAL and NOTHING GOES WRONG if you just do it NATURALLY....

I have nightmares about someone deciding to do a water birth and keeping the newborn under water while it's trying to take its first breath of air.

[anna_wing]

I'd worry about legal (both civil and criminal) liability too, if something happens to either the child or the mother.

[azara1]

Is that obsession with "Sharing is Good" a particularly American thing, or is it generational? When I was a child in 1960s Ireland, I and my 4 brothers were brought up in the camp of Nobody Touches My Stuff. Toys and books could be borrowed, but had to be given back; a stash of edible items like Easter eggs could be hoarded for days without anyone else expecting it to be shared. I'm constantly gobsmacked by AITA stories of how "sharing" can be used to penalize the quieter or more careful members of a family.

[oursin]

It's bizarre to me, too - things like toys, books, clothes, got passed down as one aged out of them perhaps. But these were the 50s/60s and times of scarcity anyway.

Possibly there was a culture of letting other kids on the street 'have a go' on one's scooter or trike or whatever, but only for a few turns, not riding it away into the sunset.

Oh yes, and there came a stage when my sister, my mother and I were all much of a similar size and could wear the same clothes (my mother had great taste), but we asked first if we wanted to borrow a particular item.

[azara1]

I think that the quality of fairness was strongly emphasized - it was essential, where generosity was considered a very good thing, but recommended, not required. Enforced generosity to me is a contradiction in terms.

I don't know if it comes from schools, Sunday schools, parenting books or Mommy sites, but the idea that sharing should be forced on kids seems to be widespread.

A favourite quote of mine is from Kidnapped, where the lawyer says to David Balfour:

"Now, Mr. David, they talk a great deal of charity and generosity; but in this disputable state of life, I often think the happiest consequences seem to flow when a gentleman consults his lawyer, and takes all the law allows him."

[oursin]

Forcing sharing seems to me Point Thahr Misst and in the long run counter-productive. Also there seems to me to be lack of thinking through over Things That Can Reasonably Be Shared (bags of crisps e.g.) and Things That, Not So Much: expensive consumer items readily damaged that a person has saved up to buy or that were personal gifts, e.g., or, a recurrent plaint, special food/drink, whether it is the good stuff other people either do not replace or replace with bog-standard version, or food specific to allergies etc.

[silveradept]

That sounds like there is more than the story is telling. The "would call the authorities" to me sounds like "the neighbors would hear the sounds and shouts of labor and conclude some heinous crime was going on," and the "want to use your house for birthing" makes me wonder if they are worried about things other than the process of birth, like costs, immigration statuses, or as others have mentioned, they have some woo in their heads about natural birth as opposed to hospital birth.

The person posting is certainly not the asshole for refusing, but I really feel like we've only gotten a third of the whole story.

[oursin]

I also wonder if person posting has got anything like the full story, because it looks like it's just being framed to him as 'oh, you have more room and a bathtub and it's a house rather than an apartment' question of convenient space, which in the circs can surely not be all that's in play.

[movingfinger]

I know someone who used a birthing pool. Forty years ago, nearly! A qualified professional (can't remember if she was called a midwife) (possibly 2 people? plus partner?) was in attendance, but an important aspect of it was that it was a specialty thing that was sanitary and heated. It was deepish, too. There are a lot of things that can go wrong in a birth, and adding deep water and, very likely, dim lighting and candles layers extraordinary risk.

I suspect the "neighbors will call authorities" is because she expects to scream and vocalize uninhibitedly, as all wild natural women do when they give birth in forest pools.

[sara]

Surely this is for what one books into the hippie run birth center (we will here overlook my own attempt to labor in a birthing pool at the hippie birth center and how that ended up with an emergency caesarean at the hospital, because everyone survived and it's been damn near twenty years).

[owl]

I'm surprised the question is not "WIBTA for calling social services on my brother and his partner?"

No prenatal care at all, ooof. There are so many things that could go wrong!