The lightbulb has to want to change

[oursin]

Various posts hither and yon about giving, particularly to beggars in the street, but also more generally.

And whether one should give them money in case they spend it on drinks or drugs... though there was one creepy anecdote about a sandwich shop owner who was in someone's face about giving the street person on the doorstep a sandwich, on the grounds that they might sell it on (WTF and so what), which seemed to me to be more about These People Are The Undeserving and therefore should not be given anything at all.

Being someone who has various food sensitivities which are far less intrusive than those of some of my flist, I do think the 'give them food instead' has real practical issues of not necessarily the most appropriate thing.

Quite apart from the moralistic self-righteousness that that approach can embody (and, okay, I can see that there are situations when someone demands money for food and that is quite clearly not the agenda and offering to buy them food reveals that).

I cannot held thinking of this reported comment by Dr Johnson (who was notably generous to beggars, waifs, strays and unfortunate):

What signifies," said someone, "giving a half pence to common beggars? They only lay it out on gin and tabacco".
[He responded]
"And why should they be denied such sweeteners of their existence?"

I suppose we may have, in the backs of our minds, a narrative in which whatever we do somehow turns the other life around? Sometimes we need to just perform spontaneous and random acts which may make no narrative sense at all. Or indeed any obvious sense.

And doing the right thing isn't necessarily something that gives one a warm glow: when we were posting favourite quotations recently, one of the ones I included was this, because I think it's very true:

A desire for a warm fuzzy feeling... is one of the worst guides to right action that you can have in this life. This is not a useful kind of love. Neither is the kind of love that amounts to a prize for the ego-- the people who can't stop watching themselves loving others.
Maggie Helwig, 'Politics and Love', in Real Bodies (2002)

ETA: Though I thought this was a wonderful idea: Flashmob iftar:

Tomorrow evening the homeless men and women who congregate in London's Lincoln's Inn Fields will have some visitors. Young Muslims have been coming to the park each Tuesday during the fasting month of Ramadan, laden with chicken biryani, samosas and cakes, which they have distributed to homeless people.

Comments

[buffysquirrel.livejournal.com]

I have sometimes wondered if a homeless person will like the food or hot drink I buy for them. But then I think that's just an excuse not to give them anything.

[owlfish]

When I have spare food on me in sanely unitable quantities and am asked for money for food, I offer my food - an apple, gougeres, whatever. Only once did the person in question take me up on my offer. It's entirely true that they do not know the provenance of what I offer; they may be allergic to whatever it is. It still feels right to try to offer, however, even if what is desired - money etc. - isn't what I'm offering them.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

I wonder if there's a fear that there might be something dodgy about the food - razorblade in the apple, e.g., rather than (though possibly inclusive of) 'I will get rid of the stuff in my fridge that has gone past its use-by date by Giving It To The Poor'.

[owlfish]

That's true. Or possibly that I would only wish to be rid of it if it were bruised/somewhat spoiled.

In these cases, I haven't deliberately gone out with food to give away. It's more, say, coming back from a party, or entirely uneaten things from lunch. But they've no reason to know that.

[unblinkered.livejournal.com]

I tend to not give money to beggars - or, to my shame, buy the Big Issue regularly - but I do tend to be friendly with those I pass on a regular basis and end up occasionally giving them change for keeping an eye on the dog while I pop into the shop or buy them a coffee if they're looking particuarly cold and miserable. Although I always ask if they'd like a coffee/tea/whatever first. It is usually accepted with thanks.

But then I live in a city where you are somewhat acquainted with your local beggars and there is some level of mutual trust, I think.

[buffysquirrel.livejournal.com]

I confess I don't ask first. Maybe it is bad, but I like to just give the person whatever, then scuttle away and leave them to it.

Let's not psycho-analyse that :).

[unblinkered.livejournal.com]

*g* Let's not. ;)

To be fair, I only do this with people I see on an almost daily basis, whom I know...the guy that passes the time til he can go to the hostel by sitting on the ledge outside the shop down the road, the girl that used to sell the BI on my way to work, the BI seller outside Somerfield that is always impeccably dressed. Most days, I just give them a smile as I walk past, some days a little bit more.

[Edit] I used to do a lot more of this when I still smoked....handing someone a cigarette or two is a lot less hassle than popping into McD's for a cup of tea!

[altariel.livejournal.com]

"And why should they be denied such sweeteners of their existence?"

Absolutely. Who am I to decide what someone should and shouldn't do to their own bodies? It's a right I certainlyl demand from society.

One counter-argument I can construct is that by potentially giving money to support a drug habit then I'm potentially putting money into crime. But - to slide briefly into stereotypes - I'd rather someone asked than mugged me.

I think acts of kindness to strangers act as a kind of social balm, and also as a deposit into our common-wealth of good feeling. Someone who has been the recipient of unconditional kindness is less likely to go home and kick the dog or any other handy target. Like when you tell someone you like what they're wearing: you can see them perk up, like watering a plant.

ETA: Most of the time, though, I am totally made of fail, and stomp round with a scowl on my face and an intense desire to be away from other people.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

I am not exactly A Little Sister of the Poor myself...

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

which seemed to me to be more about These People Are The Undeserving and therefore should not be given anything at all

Or maybe it's the idea that they're cutting into his profit because they can sell the sandwich cheaper. (Bad logic, because a sandwich has already been bought from him that otherwise wouldn't have been.)

A desire for a warm fuzzy feeling... is one of the worst guides to right action that you can have in this life. This is not a useful kind of love. Neither is the kind of love that amounts to a prize for the ego-- the people who can't stop watching themselves loving others.

I think that's one you need to be extremely carefulul about applying on the blogosphere. A fairly large percentage of bloggers who identify as nurturing types seem to spend a lot of time writing about how they need to take care of themselves and their own feelings. There are (at least) two possibilities (and I think both apply, to different people and maybe to the same people at different times. One is that they are doing exactly this, enjoying the self-image of being a nurturer, without ever nurturing anyone else very much. But I'm sure this doesn't apply in all cases - partly because in some cases the people around *also* write about how loving and nurturing this person is. I think in that case, they write about taking care of themselves precisely because it's hard for them, something they need to work on and think about.

(I on the other hand, never write about needing to care for and nurture myself or to guard my own tender feelings. I am just fine at being kind to myself. I write about needing to care for others, to work on and remind myself.)

[oursin.livejournal.com]

People who look after others effectively are probably also the ones who look after themselves, and therefore don't burn out or develop martyr complex?

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

I have a very strong memory of being about ten and censoriously asking my mother why it was that so many of the single mothers of handicapped children at the opportunity playgroup she organised smoked, seeing as they didn't have much money, and her replying that they needed a smoke more than most people: I am charmed that the sentiment goes back to Dr Johnson.

I have to admit, however, that the main reason I give money (though to Shelter rather than in the street except on a completely random 'Yes, I do have some spare change, now you come to mention it' basis) is that I used to go out with a very censorious Christian who insisted on giving food, though I don't remember him ever actually giving any, and I don't want to be like him. I'm sure none of the people on your friends list who do give food are anything like him either!

[copperwise.livejournal.com]

I don't have a hard and fast rule about it. My husband and I both tend to go with gut instinct. Sometimes it tells me to stop and give someone what I can, sometimes it tells me to keep walking. I am probably more likely to give money to the street kids, but then we also go out a couple of times a year and buy fistfuls of bras and underwear and socks when there is a big sale, all sizes and styles, and drop them off at the shelter that caters to the homeless teens. We generally drop off blankets at the various shelters at the beginning of winter. We do what we can and we go with our guts.

[ironed_orchid]

If I have change and can spare it, it's theirs. Most often, I really can't spare it lately, which sucks on many levels.

[redbird]

One compromise between food sensitivities and worrying about whether the money will actually be spent on food: I have occasionally asked people panhandling outside food shops "can I buy you a bagel?" or equivalent. One of them asked me to get him a container of milk instead; it's an offer constrained by what that store sells, but a little more flexible than making a specific selection for a stranger. (We've also occasionally given away fruit, but it's been in the context of "just got this huge basket of pears" and feeling we could spare fruit in the same way that one might otherwise be able to spare change.)

I've also found that creating any sort of policy for myself on this—give money, give food, give nothing, give through charity groups, give directly—seems to work poorly for me. So, sometimes I give people who are asking money, if the impulse moves me.

Actually, I do have one rule: nothing to panhandlers who are standing at the doors of banks, because I don't want to encourage standing in a location where the begging may make people feel vulnerable. And that's partly because I, who am not especially old, frail, or cautious on such matters, have occasionally looked at a bank lobby, and a strange man standing there holding the door open, and decided to wait and get money from a different machine.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

Oh yes - I hate the ones who hang out around ATMs, which is a similar thing. Especially as ATMs don't give change, only £10-£20 notes!

[tournevis.livejournal.com]

Breaking the fast at Ramadan with the homeless is a GREAT idea. Which fits right in with the idea of Ramadan too. These guys are brilliant. I tend not to give to the homeless individually, because I never have cash on me, not because I don't want to give. I,d rather give. We give a lot to homeless services, in the form of cash, clothes, hygiene supplies and stuff. Stéphane gives time. I make lists. It's a continuing process, year round, which is the most important, since most people who give, only do just before Christmas. As if children don't go hungry in May.

[tournevis.livejournal.com]

Another thing we do is buy the Homeless magazine or newspaper from anyone who is selling it, since they too are homeless and this is their only income. If that means buying three copies that month, so be it.

[loligo.livejournal.com]

A possibly apocryphal story that someone once told me about an encounter they saw in the street:

Person Being Asked For Change: "How do I know you won't spend it on drugs or booze?"

Panhandler: "How do I know YOU won't?"

[forthwritten.livejournal.com]

I think it's more problematic when the person doesn't want to be dependent on drugs or alcohol.

I love the idea of the iftar and having a community meal. If everyone sits down and shares a meal it acknowledges everyone as a person.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

If I get hit on for food money while walking into a convenience store, I ask the person what he or she would like me to buy for them. I've never had anyone refuse, and that way they can get whatever they'd actually want to eat.

[serrana.livejournal.com]

What we have been doing at our church is making up little packets that include a bus token, a $1 gift certificate at McDonald's, a list of places that provide meals and services, and a prayer (because, yes, we're religious people). I usually stick in a granola bar in the summer and a chocolate bar in the winter, and we keep a couple in the car and distribute them as needed.

I have only been turned down once, by someone who kept insisting that what he wanted wasn't food, but "money to buy food," which he kept repeating, over and over, until we finally walked away. Of course, I have made some effort to distribute food products which are edible by most people most of the time.

ETA: Oh, yes, and this week I was on my bike at a stoplight and got spare-changed. I didn't have anything appropriate on me and my purse was at the bottom of my pannier, under a bunch of other stuff, so I said, "Sorry, I haven't got anything." The guy gave me a big grin and said, "Yeah, you don't look like you have a lot of spare change!" and I will admit that I thought, shit, I have got to stop going out on errands without changing out of my yardwork clothes.... *G*

[(Anonymous)]

Have you ever encountered someone panhandling that is overly aggressive? I live outside of the city and rarely see someone panhandling, so it's not something I've thought about much, but I read this article http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_3_panhandling.html yesterday and wanted to know how people handle this if they encounter it.

Heather Orser

[oursin.livejournal.com]

Not since New York in 1970, when possibly I looked much younger and easier to intimidate. It doesn't seem to me to be a question which has much resonance in the UK context (I may be wrong, depending on location): but in recent visits to a number of US cities I can't say I've encountered this.

[sollersuk.livejournal.com]

I was blown away by the Flashmob iftar thing; it is so right in so many ways. I found myself remembering a television programme on Sikhism, showing the meal after the service where eveybody was welcome, including several street people of the type that most people wouldn't want anywhere near them, but the attitude was, "they're hungry, we feed them."

In the Sandman books there is a street person that Barnaby the dog spends time with; he has a sign saying "I'll only spend it on drink".

Personaly, I don't care if the people I give to spend it on drink or drugs. If they're living on the street, they've got such a shitty life that anything that makes it feel tolerable is good.

*Puts on religious hat, influenced by "my daughter the theologian"*: there is nothing about giving just to the "deserving" poor, Anyone who spent that much time hanging out in taverns would know perfectly well where a lot of alms would go.

[daiskmeliadorn.livejournal.com]

related to the question of giving food, i used to stay overnight as a volunteer in a small terrace house that was used as a shelter for homeless people. there was a guy there once who bragged that he hadn't spent any money for 10 years or something ridiculous like that. i excitedly asked him if he went dumpster diving, and he was mortally offended - i almost got in trouble really until i managed to explain that *i* did and i thought it was awesome - probably it's easier for a middle class person like me to give up some of my moral standing (or something) by admitting to bin diving, since i have so many other resources etc... i can afford to lose a bit of that one, i suppose. (and of course in some circles you gain street cred by going bin diving. middle class student circles...)

[smellingbottle.livejournal.com]

On the giving of food issue, I remember being very shocked when I first moved to England at more than once seeing people wordlessly walk past a beggar outside a supermarket, and, returning, present his dog with a can of dog food, without so much as making eye contact with the adjacent human being. I mean, it's not that I don't see that the dog was unlikely to be living the high life, but
it seemed an extraordinary gesture to me. Because they'll clearly spend it on drink and drugs and starving the dog etc.