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[oursin]

Yet again, the world of interior design Does Not Get Books: Recycling Books to Pot Indoor Plants. Can I get a loud, resounding *AAAAAAAARRRRRRGH* on this?

Marc Quinn: Just don't call it a freak show - I am really a bit dubious about whether he is not, in fact, using, even if he is aestheticising, bodies which could be assimilated to a discourse of freakishness, and wondering whether it's really all about the power of the shock.

I befriended a serial killer. WHUT. I just don't get this sort of thing. Would she feel the same if he wasn't safely locked up?

Woo the woo: Prince of Wales's health charity wound up in wake of fraud investigation:

Critics of the foundation in the scientific community welcomed its closure.

David Colquhoun, professor of pharmacology at University College London, said: "It has been influential in senior medical circles and it has been largely responsible for the acceptance of complementary medicine in parts of the establishment, and that has been its worst influence.

"In much of what it promotes, I believe it has given misleading advice and it has not considered the evidence for and against the effectiveness of various medicines. The prince is well-meaning, but he has views about these things that are somewhat medieval."

Feminists in Afghanistan are forced to operate as underground movement, often using the burqa as a convenient disguise.

Men Are Terribly Poor Stuff (and self-deluding): Mariella Frostrup takes a codfish to a 54-year old man who thinks he has something potentially going with a friend of his student daughter.

The belief that a genius is the product of genetic make-up is as pervasive as it is wrong, according to David Shenk: but if you're going to cite Mozart and the importance of environmental factors, why not invoke the spectre of his sister, who presumably had very similar genes, but who, because she was a girl, didn't get the same hothousing (I think here of those recent instances of women in sport, chess, and academia who were clearly hothoused by their devoted, or possibly obsessive, fathers, and the extent to which that is something that just wouldn't have happened in most earlier times).

How scary is this? Rising Tory star Philippa Stroud ran prayer sessions to 'cure' gay people - it's creepy enough the 'curing' gay people, but the whole belief in demons thing is really, really, troubling - does she want to exorcise the entire country? And is it easier to get away with this kind of thing if you are a Home Counties blonde?

Gender and depression: we've heard a lot this week about women and their depression, but mental health charity MIND suggests that Vast numbers of men are suffering from depression in the UK but missing out on treatment, owing to the skewed criteria used by GPs to diagnose the illness:

Paul Farmer, the chief executive of Mind, says men are just as likely to suffer from mental distress as women of the same age and are far more likely to kill themselves: the highest suicide risk group in the UK is now men aged between 40 and 49. But because of the emphasis on typically female issues and symptoms under the categories used to understand how depression works, the extent of the problem among men is largely hidden.

While depressed women can turn in on themselves, men suffering from the illness can become animated, aggressive and angry. Middle-aged men are also far less likely to talk to friends and relatives about their feelings, relying heavily on their partner, which can push them towards marital breakdown and further isolation.

Comments

[laughingrat]

Something about the men and depression thing is getting under my skin and pissing me right off...I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's almost like it's trying to shift blame back on women somehow. It'll click later after I've let it lie for a bit.

My wife is kind and not unattractive, but her mind seems resigned to the slide towards middle age.

Do they have something more industrial-strength than cod? Because I got a powerful desire to wallop that fool. It is my earnest desire to smack him so hard upside the head that every other sexist on earth feels it through some kinda cosmic dickhead sympathy.

The idea of feminists using the burqa as a disguise has a deliciousness to it, even as I marvel at the danger they're in.

[ideealisme.livejournal.com]

Is he a fool, though? Assholus maximus, for sure, but a fool? Reproduction, evolution, society (after a period of reflection) are all on his side and not on his wife's. Men can start over and women can't. Is it any wonder that they sometimes exercise this power?

(NB. I think that men leaving their wives and children for younger women is vile. And I truly want to wallop him too, very hard.)

[laughingrat]

Oh, okay. I was all wrong then. Thank you for putting me back in my humble place. Also, it makes you look totes awesome that you deliberately took a cheerful, halfassed comment, picked at one word used in good-natured hyperbole, and took several minutes tearing it apart pedantically. Not only does it make you seem super brilliant, but well-adjusted socially and a great person to be around. I can definitely see why someone like Oursin would enjoy your company. I am also 100% totally not blocking you from commenting in my own space now.

[ideealisme.livejournal.com]

did you not see the rest of my comment where I said I thought his behaviour was vile and that I didn't condone it at all? The point I was making was that on a purely selfish agenda it would not penalise him greatly to act in that manner. Society and life would be on his side. That is the injustice which bothers me - that actually he is *not* a poor deluded fool, he is a calculated seducer with everything on his side.

I won't respond to the rest of your comment and you may do as you see fit in your own journal.

[ideealisme.livejournal.com]

OK I lied. One more clarification. I should probably say that when I said "Is he a fool?" I was thinking aloud. I was riffing off your comment, rather than disagreeing with it.

Saying I'm using that as a jumping off point to try and tear you down personally is implying that I have care or motive to do something like that. I don't; I don't know you.

[cija.livejournal.com]

Men can start over and women can't

Uh -- what? No, women in their fifties are entirely capable of leching after college boys, making up elaborate and sad fantasies about how said boys are really earnestly interested in them as people, and if they really set their hearts/loins on it, they are as capable if not more capable of seducing them into bed than their male peers as long as they're willing to abandon their dignity first, which is no more than their male peers are obligated to do in pursuit of the same goal.

I mean, that was what the letter was about.

If you're going to accept the notion that older men are more sexually attractive than older women (because of Evolution!), you also have to take on board its accompanying article of faith, that younger men have higher and more indiscriminate libidos than younger women -- so the possibilities for the middle-aged heterosexual are pretty gender-equitable.

Or if by "start over" you mean "have more kids without medical or adoptive assistance," sure, it's much easier for men, but again, if you read the letter you will have seen that this guy seemed aggressively uninterested in the kid he's already got, and made no mention at all of any desire for more.

[ideealisme.livejournal.com]

I suppose I should have elaborated to say that often these stories can be twisted into the idea that they're a Grand Passion - because affairs that cause drama due to actions like that are more likely to be hyped up as same. And that as a result they can almost get the blessing of society. I'm specifically thinking of the treatment of that awful sleek creature Jonathan Dimbleby's behaviour with the opera singer.

I'm not sure the same social kudos is awarded to women who act in a similar way. I certainly don't think women have to cash in their chips after 35, no matter what the Daily Fail (and the guardian too, to a certain extent) might say to the contrary.)

I think the ability of men to reproduce all through their lives *does* affect the power balance as people age - and I think on a very bare evolutionary basis, simply the power of being able to go on having them trumps investing in them, hence this bloke's behaviour.

In no way at all do I think his conduct is fair, kind, becoming, or dignified. I just think it might be canny solely and selfishly for him.

[aquaeri]

I am an evolutionary geneticist, and I am here to whack you around with a large Paracanthopterygii for abuse of evolution, to wit: pseudo-evolutionary just-so story justifications of Western culture.

[ideealisme.livejournal.com]

Western culture. Hmmm.

I don't think I have anything further to discuss here on this subject.

[daedala]

I had a similar reaction to the men-and-depression bit. Kind of, Oh! So now that you have, with your privileged dismissals, put all the crazy women in the attics, you find that you are not so immune to problems after all, and now it is also women's fault that you are not getting help for a problem you insisted was theirs all along. Very generic "you" there of course.

[recessional]

All of the people I've known who've died of MDD have been white, middle-class, straight men.

Nobody ever saw it coming, until they walked in to find the body and the note.

The tally is four.

It's anecdata, of course, but I can easily, easily believe men slip under the radar with this disease, and that this is significantly dangerous not only to themselves but to others, as men in breakdown are more likely to lash out on their way out.

[oursin]

Yes, one thinks of those men who kill their entire families and themselves because they believe themselves to have come to utter ruin.

But whose fault is that depression is viewed in feminised terms? I think we can blame the medical profession for defining it as something poor weak wymmynz suffer from and express in womanly ways? (Okay, there is a lot wrong with much popular historiography of hysteria, but I think we can invoke that bit of stereotyping as equivalent.) I also (on the basis of having done some historical research on an ailment that men were, on their own testimony, extremely reluctant to reveal to male GPs) wonder if the gender of the doctor would make a difference in whether and how men presented depression.

[ironed_orchid]

In more anecdata, the men I know seem more able to admit to external causes of depression like SAD, than to simply say "things aren't so good with me".

[recessional]

Oh, the problem certainly originates in all sorts of gender fuckery that most often has its roots in lovely misogynisitic cultural tropes, in the idea that seeking help is weakness, in the idea that being depressed is weakness and part of a moral flaw in the human being suffering, and that it's "okay" for women to be depressed because we're the weaker vessel to start with of COURSE we can't all be expected to face the world on our own (like any true human could), and ergo it's not just difficult it's a matter of major, crippling shame for a man to get the diagnosis.

This doesn't stop people from dying, and doesn't mean the problem is to be dismissed or derided. (It's also not NEWS. They knew this when my mother's cousin shot himself, when I was ten. It wasn't even news then - it was old news that our culture's idea of masculinity is deadly poison for almost any man with a mental illness.)

[kore]

OH MY GOD I could not believe that woman writing to the HILLSIDE STRANGLER. Granted it is a really depressingly common phenomenon but Jesus it is SO evident in that piece he is manipulating her (....story about a sensual former nun? srsly? on Valentine's Day?) and just aaaaggghhhh.

Nannerl's life is really sad. Everyone knows about Leopold's control over his son (thanks mainly to Peter Shaffer), but he was even worse with her (rather reminiscent of Papa Bronte, not wanting his daughter to marry _anyone_). Her brother was more publicized because he was younger and then allowed to tour because she was male, and she got to sit at home with her parents. She was at least as talented a performer as he was (and a composer too).

Nannerl Mozart

[ideealisme.livejournal.com]

While I agree with you in general about sexism and genius, it seems in this particular case Wolfgang WAS more talented than Nannerl - he could improvise cadenzas to his works on the spot whereas she could not, just to give an example, even though they were both talented pianists. And Clara Wieck was similarly hothoused by her father, who brought Schumann to court to prevent her marrying him - not a bad idea, in hindsight, though Clara did still have a successful career even when married to a sexist composer who fathered seven children by her and who suffered frequent breakdowns.

Felix and Fanny Mendelssohn, though, was totes sexism.

Re: Nannerl Mozart

[ethelmay.livejournal.com]

I think it's a bit ridiculous to say genes have *nothing* to do with the matter. Mozart was obviously incredibly talented by the time he was three years old -- when did he have time to do intensive practicing and what not by that age? People who start at five and practice intensively until they are eight do not become Mozarts (even Beethoven didn't). Plus, most young children simply WILL NOT COOPERATE with being Mozartified. There's nothing in it for them; there was something in it for little Wolfi.

Of course hard work has a whole lot to do with accomplishing things -- no one ever said it didn't. But the capacity to do unusually hard work without breaking down under the strain may *also* be partly genetic, as may some of the interest that makes such hard work palatable.

We now know that some environmental factors turn genes on and off, too, which means that a characteristic can be BOTH 100% environmental (without the environmental factor it would never have been expressed) AND 100% genetic (without the gene it would never have been expressed). This sort of thing is about the best example of It's Always More Complicated that I know. And of course some random congenital factors, such as ambidexterity, can make learning to play an instrument much easier.

I don't know enough about Nannerl to judge what she might have been capable of, but what seems most likely to me is that these days she would certainly be a major-orchestra-class performer. Incidentally, I find from the Wikipedia article on her that her father had the early raising of her son (https://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/1566-299247). If he'd lived longer (Leopold Mozart died when his grandson was only about two) it would have been interesting to see what happened. Dunno what happened to Leopold Jr. except that he lived to be 55 and must have done something or other.

Re: Nannerl Mozart

[ideealisme.livejournal.com]

Poor Leopold. He probably worked for the bank.

Interesting comment, particularly the idea that there might be a genetic component behind being able to do a piece that would be extremely hard work. Of course Mozart famously used to compose while playing billiards! Perhaps it wasn't such hard work for him.

Re: Nannerl Mozart

[oursin]

I think there probably is some component of innate talent or gift, but that it is really, really, dependent on environmental circumstances for whether it ever comes to anything. (As Woolf pointed out in her riff on what would have happened to Shakespeare's talented sister.)

(Maybe these days Wolfgang Amadeus would be the star turn on Pot Black?)

Re: Nannerl Mozart

[ethelmay.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, and quite a lot of environmental circumstances are just luck, too -- being born to a position of privilege, or meeting the one person who can help you. But it seems pretty tragically likely to me that most Ramanujans never meet their Hardys. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan)

Re: Nannerl Mozart

[antisoppist]

There was a piece in a recent Observer magazine by a table tennis champion who said that half the children in his street became table tennis champions and it wasn't down to some strange genetic cluster of talent but due to a dedicated school teacher who provided coaching and a clubhouse with a table that they could use whenever they wanted. And that if he had lived on the other side of the road, he wouldn't have become a table tennis champion because he would have gone to a different school.

Re: Nannerl Mozart

[ethelmay.livejournal.com]

Sure, but most people exist in a state of extreme dearth of table tennis coaching, so the variation you would expect to see in people's abilities would be very much in line with the variation in how much coaching they had. In the same way, if a society exists in a constant state of near-famine, with only a few routinely getting enough to eat, those who have most food will typically be tallest, whereas in a state where nearly everyone has plenty of food, height variation is almost entirely genetic. You wouldn't see *everyone* being a champion if table tennis coaching were universal. You'd see the definition of "champion" changed to the point where you would have to have every advantage you could possibly muster, including some genetic things such as long arms or whatever, in order to make champion.

With music in particular I think neurological differences (not necessarily genetic, but not easily altered, either) may be involved. If I remember correctly, Oliver Sacks describes a lot of cases where head injuries resulted in the patients' interest in music being radically changed, from pro to con or vice versa. And then there's Williams Syndrome, where a chromosomal error causing a constellation of symptoms (everything from an inability to do simple arithmetic to a tremendous predisposition toward developing diabetes) is somehow frequently linked with musical talent (specifically the likelihood of having absolute pitch, an enhanced sense of rhythm, and a strong musical memory). http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061003191006.htm. It doesn't seem so much of a stretch to say that a particular characteristic of the brain could also vary genetically in the ordinary way.

[tree_and_leaf]

it's creepy enough the 'curing' gay people, but the whole belief in demons thing is really, really, troubling - does she want to exorcise the entire country?

I only half agree re: exorcism. Yes, I would run a mile screaming from churches who foreground the idea of possession, particularly when they use it as an explanation for homosexuality (and I wouldn't touch Ms Stroud's church with a bargepole; nor would they regard me as anything other than a dirty liberal/ heretic, for a wide variety of reasons). On the other hand, I think deliverance ministry has its uses IF it is applied by sane, responsible people with a decent grasp of psychology, and without brainwashing people into thinking that they need it.* But I agree that, combined with all the other signals that particular church is sending, it's a very bad sign.

But actually I think Ekklesia's point about her church's ghastly views on headship is more pertinent.


* I.e., it's not actually about telling people they are under the control of the forces of darkness, but helping people who that think they are to see that they aren't. If you see what I mean.

[nineveh_uk]

I like Ekklesia's line suggesting a conflict of interest, which after a moment's idle grin struck me as a serious point.

[ironed_orchid]

For the love of all that is literate, stop messing with the books!

[wordweaverlynn]

Oh boy, the Hillside Strangler!

No, she wouldn't feel the same. It's like looking at a tiger in the zoo as opposed to one that's chasing you.

But I think I understand her fascination with people who do radical acts of violence. She came from an abusive background herself. She may have thought about murder as a solution. And she wants to understand why some people go over the edge into lethal violence, partly so she can reassure herself that she won't. She may also be trying to understand her adoptive parents as well as herself.

These are all impulses I share, although I prefer to explore them through reading true crime rather than meeting criminals.

I also have to say I think this woman has crossed a line herself. I wouldn't be surprised if she started to campaign to get him out.

[mouseworks]

Funny how the most religious parts of the world have the most poverty.